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Andrew Gelman's avatar

Ben:

1. Just for the benefit of the readers, the authors of the paper, in order, are Erik van Zwet, Andrew Gelman, Sander Greenland, Guido Imbens, Simon Schwab, and Steven Goodman. I like our paper; I just think all the authors deserve credit here.

2. Erik responded in comments regarding your claim that the paper is "unreproducible" and related data issues.

3. At the very beginning of the post, you write that we "aimed to show that all randomized experiments are false." We never said that or implied that or anything like that. Indeed, I have no idea what it even would even mean to say "all randomized experiments are false."

In summary, I get that you have strong feelings about reproducibility, based on a background that is different from ours. And I see that some of your commenters below appreciate your contrarian stance. That's all fine. The problem is that you seem to think you're arguing against us, but you're actually arguing against things we never did (perform an unreproducible analysis) or that we never said (something something about experiments being false).

It's kinda frustrating because I fear that people will read your post and not our paper (or this comment) and, as a result, come to the false impression that we did an irreproducible analysis, that "no one knows" what happened to 11,285 of the studies, and that we "aimed to show that all randomized experiments are false." To call of that a distortion of our paper would be an understatement; it's pretty much the opposite of what we do and say in our paper!

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Erik van Zwet's avatar

Ben: Your criticism missed the mark by a mile.

> What happened to the remaining 11,285? No one knows.

Not true. Have a look at the online supplement of van Zwet, Schwab and Senn:

set.seed(123) # for reproducibility

d=read.csv("CochraneEffects.csv")

d=d %>% filter(RCT=="yes")

d=d[d$outcome.group=="efficacy" & d$outcome.nr==1 & abs(d$z)<20,]

d=group_by(d,study.id.sha1) %>% sample_n(size=1) # select single outcome per study

> Let me reiterate: this paper about reproducibility is itself unreproducible.

Not true. We have made the data that we used available, and you may check them against the publicly available Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews (CDSR). All the papers in the series have an online supplement with code, so everything is fully reproducible.

> These are not the reported z-statistics, but rather the derived z-statistics by a method of other authors.

Not true. The data were compiled by Simon Schwab who is an author of both papers. For RCTs with a numerical outcome, we have the means, standard deviations and sample sizes of both groups. For RCTs with a binary outcome, we have the 2x2 table. From these, we computed the estimated effects (difference of means or log odds ratio) together with their standard errors in the usual manner. From these, we computed the z-values. There is really no basis for accusing us of trying to deceive.

> Why is it plausible that a z-score in a clinical trial is a sample from a mixture of Gaussians? It’s not. It’s ridiculous.

Just think of it as a flexible density estimator which has some convenient mathematical properties.

> no one has any idea what the content or value of all of this data is.

The CDSR is a very well known resource that is carefully curated. It's not perfect, but it's also not some random scrape.

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