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rif a saurous's avatar

Interesting piece!

I'm a little unclear why we'd call this a polling failure. Nate Silver did in fact suggest that the single most likely outcome was Trump winning every swing state (https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-kamala-harris-polls-swing-states-1974158). You seem to be arguing that because Silver and other pollsters predicted the elections as being very close, that one party winning all the swing states indicates a "failure", but Silver at least clearly understood the biggest source of randomness was the latent bias the polls had no way of capturing, and expected that bias to be strongly correlated across swing states.

I'd also object to the sentence "The ambitious program to roll back the administrative state got a democratic mandate from the most diverse coalition a modern Republican has ever amassed." The popular vote margin here was about 1.6%, which makes it the tightest popular vote margin since 2000 and the second tightest since 1970 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_popular_vote_margin; the 1960's were tighter). The Republicans are of course turning this into a "broad mandate" claim, but it's nothing like (say) 1984 when Reagan won the popular vote for his second term by 18%.

There's something important and correct about what you're saying, which is broadly that these polls aren't very useful and we've turned them into a big stupid circus. Ultimately noisy measurements of a number (percentage of Republican votes) where we only care about one bit of information on whether that number is above a threshold (50%) are pretty low value when the measurement noise is large compared to the distance to threshold, and that's the situation we were in for this race. And the right answer is to pay less attention to them, not to try to read the tea leaves. I certainly agree this isn't supporting substantive politics or an informed electorate.

I'm ultimately agnostic on your claim that weighting renders polling useless. Again, at the object level, Silver suggested the actual outcome as most likely, exactly through his fancypants weighting process. (I don't think he or Gelman would actually make a claim of "neutral objectivity"; I think they'd agree they're engaging in an at-best semi-scientific guessing process?) In this case, the weighting doesn't get you a clear answer, but it's not obviously not working; it seems plausible to me that if the election were a little less close some of these methods might "amplify signal"? But we of course have no way of knowing.

Certainly I agree that everyone is paying way too much attention to the polls.

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Jessica Hullman's avatar

Annoying that the NYT article implies that the point of election forecasting is to get a probability of winning: " forecasts go a step further, analyzing the polling and other data to make a prediction about who is most likely to win, and how likely."

I doubt many forecasters would agree that this is their goal. It's more about predicting vote margins, trying to get insight into how close things might be across different locations. The forecasters I know are hesitant to even provide probability of win information because its so easy for people to lose sight of the uncertainty. E.g., a vote share prediction that's off by half a percentage point can change the probability of winning by six percentage points, which seems like a lot! But half a percentage point would not at all be surprising given what we know about sources of uncertainty. (Example from here: http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/research/published/jdm200907b.pdf)

I find election forecasts interesting because the demand is so out of whack with what they could actually provide. I think it is possible to learn a lot from them if you take them less as oracles and more as tools for thinking. They offer a way to explore different possible outcomes under different assumptions about sources of error, giving some people a way to engage more than they would with politics. But, that's just not what most people want from them, and I doubt it ever will be. So I agree they are kind of doomed to failure, but it's not necessarily because they have no potential to be useful.

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